5 minutes ago, Cade said:

This is what I tried to answer. On one side, an individual may have struggled and suffered their entire life to finally get the courage to use the pronouns they have always felt they identified with; and on the other side, the point seems to be "pronouns aren't all that important" by people that really never had to deal with their pronoun being challenged and aren't affected by what pronouns others decide for themselves. One of these groups, I can certainly understand why they may respond intensely. Now let's see what the article says about pronoun labels:

"Use Pronouns

It's a simple thing that can help people feel at ease. Use the pronoun they prefer. If you're introducing yourself to others, tell them your pronoun too, so they feel more at ease sharing theirs.?"Hi, I'm Victoria, and my Pronouns are she/her. What's yours?" Simple, effective and makes a difference. Don't worry if you muck up. As long as you're trying your best and apologize for getting it wrong, it's all good!"

I think this is pretty easy to understand and is just a basic form of respect. I'm not even sure I would consider that all that intense, more a common courtesy.

The thing I don't understand is that as humans, in general, we use labels all day, everyday without issue, but if the label helps support and bolster confidence in another, suddenly labels aren't important (dismissal), they don't understand (they don't need to), and some are just plain assholes that don't care about being direct with their hate. I'm not sure why these types have such an intense response, except maybe that when someone is so stubbornly ignorant, they will refute any information that challenges their opinion (or points it out for what it is).

You tried to answer a question you made up by yourself not my question or what I was pointing out in terms of the strong/harsh responses to any and all different opinions on a topic that like I've said doesn't include everyone when we aren't all the same and meanings and emotions are different for everyone no matter what your struggle is, like i pointed out unless everyone follows the same idea its dismissed or branded hateful/phobic/ignorant and like I said unless the person is a dick just doing it to be nasty it simply isn't the case. Again it's going nowhere you seem hell bent on telling me what does or doesn't effect me and what I'm dismissing. I'm not dismissing anyone. I've never questioned anyones preferences or choices and wouldn't its nothing to do with me, doesnt change my opinions or thoughts on the harmful side of labels either. Its all about acceptance and understanding not brandishing everyone that doesn't sing from the same song sheet as you being a certain way.?

There's both positives which you tried pointing out and the negatives that I was discussing? to labels which is and always was my focus here nothing to do with telling anyone they take pronouns too seriously.?

Like I've been trying to say, there is a lot of horrific things going on the world, people losing their lives?and outright discrimination or rights being taken away. Yet people are focusing on things such as J.K.Rowling saying women have periods and causing uproar like she should be hung drawn and quartered. Fair enough if she was singling out say a trans woman and telling her shes not a woman because of that, she is allowed to say women have periods just because she hasn't reeled off every eventuality in life doesn't make her hateful and every woman/man/human being is entitled to feel how they feel about the gender they identify with if any, but as you'll see the labels and multiple genders has helped a person on an individual basis if they feel its helped them being able to say it but collectively its complicated a lot by then taking simple none malicious thoughts and turning it to be harmful because it now means every one has to be super/hyper vigilant to remember to include every single gender, race, religion and every other possible label that divides us or on your head be it in this cancel culture.?

Everyone says we need discussions yet most don't want to like you put, if they don't understand (they don't need to), so we shouldn't have discussions then and should just fallow demand regardless because why does anyone need to when you should?just do as i say right?

You keep focusing on pronouns or trying to act like i shouldn't ask a question if its not directly something I picked out of the post. Like what is the real problem here? You've said why you think labels are good and standing by it, i understood you. I don't agree with you on it being a collective thing i think its great individually but like i said its the banding of humans into these labels like a one size fits all when it doesn't work like that most of us can pick multiple things we identify with in multiple ways and i think that's what cons to so much confusion or misinterpretation. It's as if no one can respectfully say I'm sorry if I offended you or thats not my experience but thank you for telling me how you see it, we don't have to be the same...move on and be happy not try to force someone to say what you want them to or shower with hate till they make a public apology deemed acceptable or just try and ruin their life all together.?

There's actual people in the world that beat, , kill and torture people they perceive as different for whatever reason and yet people would rather put effort into lobbying to get people "cancelled" because they haven't managed to please every single human on the planet and the multiple beliefs and experiences...this was where my questioning stemmed from of why labels are so important when its labels that cause this reaction in people.?

Like I said i see where you are coming from on someone needing their labels to feel accepted, its not or ever been my issue, everyone should be individual and do what works for them, I just don't see how that works collectively it feels like we want to shout about what makes us us?but only if we all feel the same way like there's no room for real individualism. Get in your box stay in your box and don't question it.

I think you are fully misunderstanding my dislike of labels as being solely trans related its not the community at all, it?just has a lot of terminology and labels?so its ?easier to show how it can be confusing and misinterpreted and then sometimes negatively judged when everyone isn't on the same page.

I would never want to dismiss anyone, if its come across that way I do apologise and it was never intentional. I'm sorry if I couldn't get my point across in a positive way or on the wrong platform. But I do believe discussions shouldn't have to be done under certain conditions as long as we are respectful to each other we can listen make our own minds up and respectfully agree to disagree if need be. The world would be a much better place if we could actually agree to disagree and still not let it effect us negatively, because our thoughts and feelings are just a fraction of who we are as a whole person and one aspect doesnt override who we are and as long as people aren't intentionally harming others and can recognise when they do then there's no harm in having?different opinions/experiences as humans...live and let live!?

I'm also not telling anyone to ignore or be happy if someone willingly chooses to attack or mock someone's choices I'm talking about discussions like this and again one size doesn't fit all and the only things we can control is how we react but holding hate is, as it's been said, like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Treat people how you would want to be treated, fair enough if someone's being an arsehole they deserve everything they get but respectful discussions shouldn't lead to negativity.

9 hours ago, Aries29 said:

I was questioning why there's such intense response to different opinions on this topic.

This is what I tried to answer. On one side, an individual may have struggled and suffered their entire life to finally get the courage to use the pronouns they have always felt they identified with; and on the other side, the point seems to be "pronouns aren't all that important" by people that really never had to deal with their pronoun being challenged and aren't affected by what pronouns others decide for themselves. One of these groups, I can certainly understand why they may respond intensely. Now let's see what the article says about pronoun labels:

"Use Pronouns

It's a simple thing that can help people feel at ease. Use the pronoun they prefer. If you're introducing yourself to others, tell them your pronoun too, so they feel more at ease sharing theirs.?"Hi, I'm Victoria, and my Pronouns are she/her. What's yours?" Simple, effective and makes a difference. Don't worry if you muck up. As long as you're trying your best and apologize for getting it wrong, it's all good!"

I think this is pretty easy to understand and is just a basic form of respect. I'm not even sure I would consider that all that intense, more a common courtesy.

The thing I don't understand is that as humans, in general, we use labels all day, everyday without issue, but if the label helps support and bolster confidence in another, suddenly labels aren't important (dismissal), they don't understand (they don't need to), and some are just plain assholes that don't care about being direct with their hate. I'm not sure why these types have such an intense response, except maybe that when someone is so stubbornly ignorant, they will refute any information that challenges their opinion (or points it out for what it is).

34 minutes ago, Cade said:

So, wait...I didn't see labels mentioned in the article unless you're referring to pronouns (which, I agree are a form of label), and these are what you think people are taking too seriously?

Yes labels (pronouns and the general such like) mentioning people who are cis gendered and what it means which is in the article triggered my initial post.?

No i haven't said anywhere anyone takes pronouns too seriously, why are we still clarifying the same thing over and over?

Again ,starting to feel like I'm stuck on repeat here, I was questioning why there's such intense response to different opinions on this topic. Long story short because we really don't need to rehash this over and over again people can't always be pigeon holed and stuck in a neat package that you said apparently makes everything easier to communicate with each other without detailing all our characteristics but people aren't just labels or pronouns either and we are all different but equally should have a right to whatever we feel suits us as individuals. Its reactions to the personal preferences either way is what I questioned the whole phobia hate thing because someone may have a different view with the cancel culture, the my way or the high way approach to these things rather than accepting people aren't programmed robots and will have differences in every aspect of life one size doesnt fit all nobody is the exact same as anyone else we are all individuals no matter who or what we identify as not everyone who questions or has different opinions is phobic or hateful yet its often implied to be that way.?

But pretty much everything I said again hasn't wavered I keep answering your questions repeatedly and going back and forth when you think you've found a point that fits with the opinion you've formed from interpreting my post as saying solely pronouns and labels are bad dont use them and you take it too seriously if you do, like can we stop now? What i have said is still there to read no matter which way you want to interpret or cherry pick snippets from it remains the same and I will just keep reiterating exactly what i said each time maybe in a different format or more simplified condensed way. So this is getting repetitive but by all means if you need me to keep answering I will.

54 minutes ago, Aries29 said:

Right? I read it but its good to confirm! Well you are welcome and??thank you for choosing to reply to what I had said about labels that was also mentioned in the article sorry it wasn't to the exact subject matter in it's entirety ?

So, wait...I didn't see labels mentioned in the article unless you're referring to pronouns (which, I agree are a form of label), and these are what you think people are taking too seriously?

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

The topic is transphobia in the sex blogging community. Thanks for the discussion!

Right? I read it but its good to confirm! Well you are welcome and??thank you for choosing to reply to what I had said about labels that was also mentioned in the article sorry it wasn't to the exact subject matter in it's entirety ?

25 minutes ago, Aries29 said:

I've consistently said the same thing so not sure how its off topic to be fair.

The topic is transphobia in the sex blogging community. Thanks for the discussion!

28 minutes ago, Cade said:

The way someone identifies and labels themselves is no "small thing".

This whole paragraph reads "I accept you, but don't care if your identity label is respected," to me. The labels people use to define themselves are important, because it's how they are trying to express themselves to the outside world - often in a safe and discreet manner. Can you really say you accept someone if you say their personal label is a "hang-up", a "distraction", or they put "far too much emphasis" on how they identify?

You don't have to see or understand how they help others to accept that some people are helped by them.

---

These were just a few points in your first post that I feel reflects this:

I'm not going to pick apart everything you posted. But again, I think that when a problem doesn't affect you, it's easy to dismiss it as a problem. You don't want to use labels and you avoid them because they seem detrimental to you? Cool beans! At this point, I feel completely lost on your point which I originally took as:

To which I replied the most common reason for most people who don't understand the importance of labels: The challenged labels aren't ones they use, so it's not a problem for them, succinctly speaking. This discussion is becoming way too off topic and confusing to really continue, but I do want to leave you with a question for you to think on (I don't want or expect an answer, as is the case with most theoretical situations).

Can you truly say you support diversity and the rights of everyone equally, and tear down other's labels because you don't see their importance or value in your world?

Yes! Because all you've done is cherry pick at what i say and try to twist it to sound like I've said anywhere it's simply a small issue with no context or like it wasn't said in comparison of the issues such as discrimination/bullying and so on that people face.?

Plus nowhere have I torn down any labels or picked at labels or said any are right or wrong barring criticising?the ones I "fit" into.?

You have totally and it comes across as willfully ignored most of what I've said to make a point, of which I'm not sure?!?

I've said probably numerous times that EVERYONE ALL HUMAN BEINGS should be respected and able to live and love however they damn well please with equal rights and opportunities.? My emphasis was never on what people choose to identify themselves as that is their business, my curiosity and struggle is thinking everyone follows the same thought process and beliefs and when someone says something different or why its personal to them that its different or they don't agree with a label that?they are torn down and 'cancelled' for being hateful, ignorant?or phobic.?

And I'm clearly not talking about anyone who goes out of their way to belittle or bully someone over a pronoun or label they identify with...those people aren't worth an ounce of anyones energy they?should be reported and or blocked/deleted and unfortunately they will probably continue on their vendetta regardless because?there are bad and good in the world and its clear no consequence on earth will change that.?

I've consistently said the same thing so not sure how its off topic to be fair. I haven't assumed what does or doesn't affect you or belittle anyone I've stated people should be free to identify with whatever they want regardless my issue was with the way everything is interpreted when a difference in opinion is stated that is it no more no less.?

You have clearly taken everything I've said as personal and interpreted it as if I've told everyone to get over themselves and stop identifying with your preferred label because I don't agree or know what its like so stop! In which case its going no where, I see you and accept that you disagree with me and will tell me you stand by what you've said, well good for you that's your perogative. Have a good day!

?

10 hours ago, Aries29 said:

I'm all for everyone living their best lives and doing what makes them happy but i feel as a society we are far too critical on the small things!

The way someone identifies and labels themselves is no "small thing".

10 hours ago, Aries29 said:

I feel like there's far too much emphasis on labels and not enough acceptance of individuals who don't feel they belong in these constructs or maybe change regularly because we as humans do that what we thought or think now will change and evolve. The hang up of labels and terminology is in my opinion detracting from the universal want to be accepted and/or just be seen for ourselves wholistically and not just certain aspects or traits.?

This whole paragraph reads "I accept you, but don't care if your identity label is respected," to me. The labels people use to define themselves are important, because it's how they are trying to express themselves to the outside world - often in a safe and discreet manner. Can you really say you accept someone if you say their personal label is a "hang-up", a "distraction", or they put "far too much emphasis" on how they identify?

11 hours ago, Aries29 said:

im just frustrated and struggling to see labels and pronouns as being detrimental to someone and why we focus so much on that aspect in general.

You don't have to see or understand how they help others to accept that some people are helped by them.

---

These were just a few points in your first post that I feel reflects this:

19 minutes ago, Aries29 said:

I don't fully understand where you are getting the idea that anything I've said translates to (paraphrasing) " labels have never been an issue...so shouldn't be for anyone...so get over it..."

I'm not going to pick apart everything you posted. But again, I think that when a problem doesn't affect you, it's easy to dismiss it as a problem. You don't want to use labels and you avoid them because they seem detrimental to you? Cool beans! At this point, I feel completely lost on your point which I originally took as:

11 hours ago, Aries29 said:

I'm genuinely curious about 'labels' and not just in the trans community but in general!

To which I replied the most common reason for most people who don't understand the importance of labels: The challenged labels aren't ones they use, so it's not a problem for them, succinctly speaking. This discussion is becoming way too off topic and confusing to really continue, but I do want to leave you with a question for you to think on (I don't want or expect an answer, as is the case with most theoretical situations).

Can you truly say you support diversity and the rights of everyone equally, and tear down other's labels because you don't see their importance or value in your world?

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Much of this seems to be a lot of misunderstanding, and yes, I completely admit some of it on my behalf. This quote is the reason for my counterargument, though. For some people, the label is what helps them not feel alone; the label confirms their identity - not as a shameful secret, but as something common enough to be identified; the label gives some the easy answer or give rather than trying to explain every?distinct nuance of their identity (some of which may be very personal and private). For you, the labels have never been an issue, is what I've taken from your posts, and so, shouldn't be for anyone else - so get over it, right?

For some people the label is literally all they have to grip onto for strength. Labels ARE important, is my counterargument, and I still standby this point:

?

?

I don't fully understand where you are getting the idea that anything I've said translates to (paraphrasing) " labels have never been an issue...so shouldn't be for anyone...so get over it..."

I literally said in my original comment the to look at I'd be defined as cis gender woman BUT BY DEFINITION I DON'T FIT THAT LABEL meaning I do?NOT identify with it. How does that mean have no problem to you??

As I said I'm trying to understand why it's so important and such offence is taken when majority of the time, given exceptions, done accidentally. And what you said proves my point it shouldn't be down to a label to have so much power that it can literally determine your happiness or mental health...this is what I'm questioning. We agree on everyone needing respect and equality regardless of anything and purely based on being human.?

Its sad in todays society that people need these labels and require it for their well being is my point. No ones happiness regardless of gender or anything should be based on terminology...as I said we've used labels and how well has it gone so far??

I get and understand that you feel labels are important and acknowledge there is a deeper meaning for you. I wasn't and have never judged another person on their beliefs or ideals but I was simply questioning why the focus is so heavy on one aspect and why it's deemed hateful or ill informed to have an individual opinion. It's counterintuitive like saying accept me and my true self/differences but don't have an idea of self that doesn't fit mine if that makes sense and definitely don't voice it even if said respectfully??

I think its important to have these kinds of conversations to broaden everyone's knowledge and give perspectives from different people, like i said in the very beginning I never wanted to offend anyone or seem ignorant I'm genuinely curious as someone who feels that I do not fit into most of these labels or boxes society wants me to.

10 minutes ago, Aries29 said:

i was stating the labels aren't helpful

Much of this seems to be a lot of misunderstanding, and yes, I completely admit some of it on my behalf. This quote is the reason for my counterargument, though. For some people, the label is what helps them not feel alone; the label confirms their identity - not as a shameful secret, but as something common enough to be identified; the label gives some the easy answer or give rather than trying to explain every?distinct nuance of their identity (some of which may be very personal and private). For you, the labels have never been an issue, is what I've taken from your posts, and so, shouldn't be for anyone else - so get over it, right?

For some people the label is literally all they have to grip onto for strength. Labels ARE important, is my counterargument, and I still standby this point:

?

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a valid issue for others, and they deserve the same consideration and respect as any human.

?

TBH I don't think anyones mental health is in a great place these days, considering what's been going on since the end of January and with what is going on now aswell...i think society needs to get it's shit together fast or there will be problems with mental health along with an unsafe living situation for everyone....everybody is an individual, with their own story of what makes them who they are. The world seems to be going backwards and it's not a good direction. Leave people alone and worry about you own problems is the way I see it

1 hour ago, Cade said:

I'm not sure where my point assumed anything about you - as I don't know you, I can't speak on your experiences. The only information I used relating to you, you supplied - that you are a cis-female. My opinion had nothing to do with you directly, otherwise, except pointing out how the fact you shared may have left you blind to the hardships of others. That you think being a biological female with no breasts makes you understand what it's like to be a transsexual/transgendered, well, is silly at best. That you were able to overcome the hardships of being a female with female problems definitely doesn't give you any right to minimize the hardships of others.

And that's the point I was trying to make. Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a valid issue for others, and they deserve the same consideration and respect as any human.

Well asking me questions on how I'd feel about certain body issues if I faced them would make me feel, to even ask the question implies I haven't experienced your examples. Also I said i would be considered cis by the definition as I said i don't identify as some label other people are pushing which was the whole point of my post.?

No where have I said my experience makes me know what being trans is like or that my life has been any better or worse than anyone else's i was stating the labels aren't helpful and the connotations and preconceived stereotypes don't fit everyone and as you said we all deserve consideration and respect and not this silly competition of top trumps who's life is worse or more important which is kind of what if feels like.?

Again you've made assumptions about what does or doesn't affect me...you don't know me and i don't know you im not telling you what to think or feel or what is worse or better im saying lables don't work or fit everyone and you're basically saying unless its a transgender/sexual it doesn't matter.

Just an FYI I do now have breasts so its not a defining characteristic I had surgery to rectify the problem which again wasn't pointed out to say I had hardship and can't see anyone else's but to say I dont fit the description that YOU gave when you told me how I developed as a cis woman!?

28 minutes ago, Vermin said:

It is important to note that hate and misunderstandings are?a learned behavior.

Completely agree! But the real power behind this statement is the idea this behavior can also be unlearned. Likewise, just because someone was taught to hate doesn't excuse it, in my opinion.

5 hours ago, Cade said:

@Aries29?I think it's very easy to fail to see the importance of labels when ours have always been assumed and accepted as the normal of society. You, as a cis-female, may well have never felt what it's like to be considered other than a female, being defined by the way your body developed breasts and female genitalia. But consider how awful it would be if suddenly, you were no longer considered something so basic and fundamentally *you*; as example, what if a person is no longer female if they can't bear children (there are women whom can't have children), or you're not a female if you don't wear makeup (not every woman wears makeup), etc? You would feel marginalized and may well feel negated as a human being even.

The simple truth is that humans use labels to simplify communication; we use them every day in various manners, often without even realizing it because it is a crucial part of human understanding. Just because you may have never experienced being belittled or even attacked for being simply what you are, doesn't mean it isn't a very real issue for others. You don't have to support labelling people, but that doesn't mean you can't support people who do feel the negative impact.

As a person in the community, I see both sides of the label argument. To be honest, it all starts in childhood?with how people are raised and taught to perceive others, just like religion. I try myself to attempt to see how others feel even when they are outright harassing me or friends of mine. It is important to note that hate and misunderstandings are?a learned behavior. No one is born hateful or immediately spewing biased opinions lol

3 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

To be fair Cade, I don¡¯t think she has at any point minimised the hardship of others. And Aries is physically disabled, so I would guess has had her fair share of issues to work through and against.

You may be right, I can admit that misunderstanding can happen in a purely textual communication. There were definitely certain statements made that I personally interpreted as minimizing the struggles of others. As for her being disabled, certainly that carries its own trials and hardships, and still I stand by my point:

?

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a valid issue for others, and they deserve the same consideration and respect as any human.

?

53 minutes ago, Cade said:

I'm not sure where my point assumed anything about you - as I don't know you, I can't speak on your experiences. The only information I used relating to you, you supplied - that you are a cis-female. My opinion had nothing to do with you directly, otherwise, except pointing out how the fact you shared may have left you blind to the hardships of others. That you think being a biological female with no breasts makes you understand what it's like to be a transsexual/transgendered, well, is silly at best. That you were able to overcome the hardships of being a female with female problems definitely doesn't give you any right to minimize the hardships of others.

And that's the point I was trying to make. Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a valid issue for others, and they deserve the same consideration and respect as any human.

To be fair Cade, I don¡¯t think she has at any point minimised the hardship of others. And Aries is physically disabled, so I would guess has had her fair share of issues to work through and against.

1 hour ago, Thirteenpoint7 said:

People who are trans do have a mental issue, its not about being transphobic its about being factual. It doesn't mean you dislike them. Not everyone has to join up to identify politics and the PC though police bridge....think for yourselves

Until the late 80s, homosexuality was still treated as a mental illness. Despite being redefined by the psychological community in 2013, many people still see consensual BDSM and fetish as a mental deviancy. That there are mental considerations does not negate either from being viable lifestyles; it does not just mean those that practice it should be dismissed as mentally ill. I bet some of those that fought against gay rights feel like they were wrong in those earlier opinions (which were mostly formed off of the erroneous majority societal beliefs, speaking of "think for yourself") with the passing of equality. I wonder if you'll still feel justified telling transsexual/transgendered individuals they need to get mental help when they earn their rights, no longer considered a mental issue.

In my own humble opinion, I think you'll feel like a dick for minimizing any human's identity as a mental issue. But, that's just my prediction. Haha.

42 minutes ago, Aries29 said:

@Cade?But most of what you have said is based still on opinion or assumption, you assume I've never experienced anything of what a trans person has and this is probably where it gets my back up.?

I was born a female in the science base dna kind of way but my body does not do what should be 'natural' but I don't get offended by anyone saying anything along the lines of "only women have periods or give birth" because as you said not everyone does. I had open heart surgery as a child and many others long story short I ended up with a lot of tissue damage i never developed breasts like i should have and you know what I got over it, it had no baring on my life and was determined with self confidence to not care what others thought about me and besides periods thats the only function that occurred for me but I can't have children, so It would be nice to remember that as much as the trans community struggle with their bodies it doesn't mean automatically a female from birth who is not feeling a different gender doesn't face massive challenges with their body, so as i said labels in this respect aren't helpful. A label should not be of importance and as you said we've all been labeled for one thing or another forever yet look how well its working out ..this is my point it should change humans no matter what should all be respected and not divided by labels or stereotypes or what we intemperate someones lived experience to be. Live and let live...like I said in terms of laws and opportunities im all for supporting change but this kind of forced ideal that if we don't all have the exact opinion its instantly a hate thing or a phobia its simply not the case and I think its usually pretty easy to spot someone who is intolerant or prejudice than someone who simply sees things differently.

As much as I can't judge someone on how they feel and their experience it works for everyone we can't cherry pick who we see as 'valid' in their feelings. Like you made out i didnt know how feeling like my body wasn't right or doing what it should and you were wrong but I choose how to react and respond and im not offended or outraged that you assumed I developed breasts and the ability to bare children. I informed you and will leave it at that.

I'm not sure where my point assumed anything about you - as I don't know you, I can't speak on your experiences. The only information I used relating to you, you supplied - that you are a cis-female. My opinion had nothing to do with you directly, otherwise, except pointing out how the fact you shared may have left you blind to the hardships of others. That you think being a biological female with no breasts makes you understand what it's like to be a transsexual/transgendered, well, is silly at best. That you were able to overcome the hardships of being a female with female problems definitely doesn't give you any right to minimize the hardships of others.

And that's the point I was trying to make. Just because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a valid issue for others, and they deserve the same consideration and respect as any human.

4 minutes ago, Thirteenpoint7 said:

People who are trans do have a mental issue

If you mean "mental issues" to mean they are probably born this way, hardwired to have a self that is born in the wrong body then yes you are correct. If? you mean mean "mental issues" to?the extreme confusion some may face as they deal with this emotionally, some possibly all their lives then yes you are correct. Finally if you mean the "mental?issues" to mean the very real physiological cinsequences of the life they have to live then finally you are correct. I do hope that reply does not offend anyone, I have been very presumptuous to assume these things

@Cade?But most of what you have said is based still on opinion or assumption, you assume I've never experienced anything of what a trans person has and this is probably where it gets my back up.?

I was born a female in the science base dna kind of way but my body does not do what should be 'natural' but I don't get offended by anyone saying anything along the lines of "only women have periods or give birth" because as you said not everyone does. I had open heart surgery as a child and many others long story short I ended up with a lot of tissue damage i never developed breasts like i should have and you know what I got over it, it had no baring on my life and was determined with self confidence to not care what others thought about me and besides periods thats the only function that occurred for me but I can't have children, so It would be nice to remember that as much as the trans community struggle with their bodies it doesn't mean automatically a female from birth who is not feeling a different gender doesn't face massive challenges with their body, so as i said labels in this respect aren't helpful. A label should not be of importance and as you said we've all been labeled for one thing or another forever yet look how well its working out ..this is my point it should change humans no matter what should all be respected and not divided by labels or stereotypes or what we intemperate someones lived experience to be. Live and let live...like I said in terms of laws and opportunities im all for supporting change but this kind of forced ideal that if we don't all have the exact opinion its instantly a hate thing or a phobia its simply not the case and I think its usually pretty easy to spot someone who is intolerant or prejudice than someone who simply sees things differently.

As much as I can't judge someone on how they feel and their experience it works for everyone we can't cherry pick who we see as 'valid' in their feelings. Like you made out i didnt know how feeling like my body wasn't right or doing what it should and you were wrong but I choose how to react and respond and im not offended or outraged that you assumed I developed breasts and the ability to bare children. I informed you and will leave it at that.

9 hours ago, Donnykinkster said:

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I firstly must say I think your really brave, courage comes in many forms and can come from the most unlikely of sources. Do I understand how you feel? No, how can I? I'm not trans so there is no way I can understand how it must feel. However I do understand emotional pain and what it feels like to hide the truth of what we are. I can feel your pain In those words so all I can say for what it's worth is I stand with you, you have my full support to live your life anyway you choose in freedom and without judgment.

?

?Hugs to you x

D

I¡¯m not sure why but your response made my eyes tear up. Yours is not ignorance but lack of knowledge and you¡¯re the first to admit that and ask questions. That is admirable and should not be forgotten. You never cease to amaze me.

19 hours ago, Memelad said:

i wish trans folk would get the mental help they need

Are you kidding me? Mental help? It¡¯s not trans people who need help but rather people like yourself who have mental blockage against equality and rights. How dare you or anyone else think that a trans person is less than and needs mental health. This community accepts everyone with every lifestyle since they obviously they accepted you. It is the mentality such as yours that makes living their lives free from judgment that makes being transgenders open to attack and violence. It¡¯s obvious that it is not the transgender person who needs help but bigoted, narrow minded people like you. May your child, relative, or friend never live as transgender because you have zero tolerance. Shame on you and those who share your opinion.

@Aries29?I think it's very easy to fail to see the importance of labels when ours have always been assumed and accepted as the normal of society. You, as a cis-female, may well have never felt what it's like to be considered other than a female, being defined by the way your body developed breasts and female genitalia. But consider how awful it would be if suddenly, you were no longer considered something so basic and fundamentally *you*; as example, what if a person is no longer female if they can't bear children (there are women whom can't have children), or you're not a female if you don't wear makeup (not every woman wears makeup), etc? You would feel marginalized and may well feel negated as a human being even.

The simple truth is that humans use labels to simplify communication; we use them every day in various manners, often without even realizing it because it is a crucial part of human understanding. Just because you may have never experienced being belittled or even attacked for being simply what you are, doesn't mean it isn't a very real issue for others. You don't have to support labelling people, but that doesn't mean you can't support people who do feel the negative impact.

I'm genuinely curious about 'labels' and not just in the trans community but in general! I feel society has become so obsessed with labels and everything and everyone must be categorised. And even in this article like 'cis-gendered' which by the definition I should consider myself but I don't I'm just me I don't wake up in the morning feeling like I think oh i definitely feel my gender today or the opposite. And in the case of J.K.Rowling I think she didn't say anything untoward, I don't see why she can't identify as a woman or believe women have periods because they do and as she stated if you identify as different you're a free to no harm no foul. It kind of feels like everyone is having to be put in neat little boxes and even stating a scientific fact is frowned upon. I'm all for everyone living their best lives and doing what makes them happy but i feel as a society we are far too critical on the small things! No one should face discrimination or bullying for being themselves but at the same time a personal opinion unless stated otherwise and specifically directed at someone shouldn't instantly mean its a some kind of phobia or hatred of a person who doesn't think the same. I'm a physically disabled person it doesn't define me and i can't change or hide it, some people don't view disabled people attractive or sexual or wouldn't even consider dating a person with a disability but you know what i dont care because for every unaccepting person there's many more that do and why focus on the people that don't!?

Fair enough fight for laws and equal treatment in regards to opportunities and so forth things that can make a difference in your life but there will always be people with different opinions and some just down right cruel/evil its been the same since the dawn of man.?

I feel like there's far too much emphasis on labels and not enough acceptance of individuals who don't feel they belong in these constructs or maybe change regularly because we as humans do that what we thought or think now will change and evolve. The hang up of labels and terminology is in my opinion detracting from the universal want to be accepted and/or just be seen for ourselves wholistically and not just certain aspects or traits.?

I've ranted and ill apologise in advance if I've offended anyone its not my intention im just frustrated and struggling to see labels and pronouns as being detrimental to someone and why we focus so much on that aspect in general.

19 minutes ago, Vermin said:

To be honest, I'm very awkward/shy in person... and even in this scene, there are always going to be people who are uncomfortable with the topic or just don't want to accept it. I have been on hormones and getting medical assistance in transitioning since age 14, and I called myself a man from the time I was 3 yrs old,?however even after 6 yrs, I am still always afraid of making other people uncomfortable... therefore, even most of my real life friends have not been made aware of my "situation" as I call it...and if it comes down to something, I will tell them, however I prefer to avoid the topic all together as not to risk them changing their opinion of me.?I am becoming almost content now in practicing my desires alone.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I firstly must say I think your really brave, courage comes in many forms and can come from the most unlikely of sources. Do I understand how you feel? No, how can I? I'm not trans so there is no way I can understand how it must feel. However I do understand emotional pain and what it feels like to hide the truth of what we are. I can feel your pain In those words so all I can say for what it's worth is I stand with you, you have my full support to live your life anyway you choose in freedom and without judgment.

?

?Hugs to you x

D

1 hour ago, Donnykinkster said:

Morning, may I ask, do you feel more comfortable being you in this scene compared to vanilla, or do you find you face simillar issues even in a community that is supposed to be more tolerant? ??

To be honest, I'm very awkward/shy in person... and even in this scene, there are always going to be people who are uncomfortable with the topic or just don't want to accept it. I have been on hormones and getting medical assistance in transitioning since age 14, and I called myself a man from the time I was 3 yrs old,?however even after 6 yrs, I am still always afraid of making other people uncomfortable... therefore, even most of my real life friends have not been made aware of my "situation" as I call it...and if it comes down to something, I will tell them, however I prefer to avoid the topic all together as not to risk them changing their opinion of me.?I am becoming almost content now in practicing my desires alone.

I think the recent transphobia within the blogging comunity, shows a real differance between virtual world and the 'phisical' world.
I've only been in this comunity (real world) for 5 years (late starter ;), but I've always found it to be inclucive, whatever pronoun someone defines themseves as. Whether gay, straight, male, female, fury or non spacific.

Most poeple in this comunity (real world) tend to take you for who you are, not what you identify yourself as. It's a shame the same thing cann't always be said here. The differance in the blogging sphere is people tend hide behind there 'anonimity' and use it to say things they wouldn't dream of saying to someones face.

I'll admit I don't always get it right, sometimes accidently using the wrong pronoun, but if my friends can except me for who I am, along with my mistakes and apologiees, then I'd be a fool not to accept them for who they identify themselves as.

This should be the most tollerent of sociaties.

[for openess perposses only: I identify as male, straight, small s.]

8 hours ago, Memelad said:

i wish trans folk would get the mental help they need

Why did you feel the need to say that? Why did you feel the need to be nasty to people you know nothing of for no apparent reason? Do you understand what empathy means? Does it not bother you that your comments could send people to bed a much sadder human being than the one who woke? Cade calls you a troll which you probably are but if not why??

6 hours ago, Curvykate said:

It is worth reading a few sources around this. I¡¯m not going to attempt to get into it tbh, Donny! Even defining the term can be controversial.

Thank you, funnily this is something i was arguing with others about on Facebook yesterday.?

30 minutes ago, Vermin said:

I'm not really the most open about my situation... as I prefer people not to know unless it's completely unavoidable that they will find out. I have seen counselors for this in 4 states and ended up getting the "help" as everyone claims we apparently need in California. Most trans people do have counselors, therapists, and doctors they work with. I took part in medical experiments relating to trans health in Cali and to anyone who argues against validating trans people, studies have shown in brain scans that there are people born with the opposite brain structure of their assigned sex at birth. Research and read before you speak

Morning, may I ask, do you feel more comfortable being you in this scene compared to vanilla, or do you find you face simillar issues even in a community that is supposed to be more tolerant? ??

I'm not really the most open about my situation... as I prefer people not to know unless it's completely unavoidable that they will find out. I have seen counselors for this in 4 states and ended up getting the "help" as everyone claims we apparently need in California. Most trans people do have counselors, therapists, and doctors they work with. I took part in medical experiments relating to trans health in Cali and to anyone who argues against validating trans people, studies have shown in brain scans that there are people born with the opposite brain structure of their assigned sex at birth. Research and read before you speak

1 hour ago, Memelad said:

i wish trans folk would get the mental help they need

Thanks for your concern, a lot of us do have a counselor to assist with the medical and mental aspects of transitioning, so no need to worry about us.

11 minutes ago, Donnykinkster said:

So I was gonna Google but thought about the words.

Would I be on the right track to assume that refers to a biologically born female who won't accept trans women?to be women??

It is worth reading a few sources around this. I¡¯m not going to attempt to get into it tbh, Donny! Even defining the term can be controversial.

mental help WTF! ???

5 minutes ago, Curvykate said:

Trans-Exclusionary-Radical-Feminist

So I was gonna Google but thought about the words.

Would I be on the right track to assume that refers to a biologically born female who won't accept trans women?to be women??

2 minutes ago, Donnykinkster said:

Laurah may I ask what "Terfs" mean, or anyone else?

Trans-Exclusionary-Radical-Feminist

Laurah may I ask what "Terfs" mean, or anyone else?

19 minutes ago, Memelad said:

i wish trans folk would get the mental help they need

I wish trolls would get the mental help they need.

i wish trans folk would get the mental help they need

the hilarity of J K Rowling deleting her tweets of praise for Stephen King after he said "trans women are women". seriously, TERF's suck.